User talk:Guido/Wishlist/Part 4: Difference between revisions

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+{{GuidoWishlist|right}}
+==Issues==
 :One good thing with these talk pages is that they can be reorganized at will.
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 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
-I have been through it already twice. There's nothing you have to worry about, here. And I really appreciate both your review and commentary for their deep insight. They don't miss a clue. Unfortunately I fear replying to you in a decent way is going to take me a while. So I wonder whether it isn't better to add a short essay (for your joy). Please, do not humiliate me with the English issues. I know how to be precise (aand when I say precise I say unambiguous), but in a creative process I prefer to play with the questions.
+:I have been through it already twice. There's nothing you have to worry about, here. And I really appreciate both your review and commentary for their deep insight. They don't miss a clue.
 ::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:45, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:Thanks. Can I expect [[User_talk:Guido/Wishlist/Part 1|These]] [[User_talk:Guido/Wishlist/Part 2|Other]] [[User_talk:Guido/Wishlist/Part 3|Three]] to get your attention in the near future? ;)
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:24, 30 October 2006 (CET)
+:Unfortunately I fear replying to you in a decent way is going to take me a while. So I wonder whether it wouldn't be better to add a short essay (for your pleasure).
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:45, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:Anything you like. Don't reply for the sake of replying : that's not the point of the talk. The point is to "adopt, adapt and improve". As long as we bear that in mind, anything goes.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:24, 30 October 2006 (CET)
+:Please, do not humiliate me with the English issues, as I am the first one who acknowledges them.
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:45, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:I don't ''mean'' to dwell on grammar/vocabulary. I try to go beyond the problem and make the content better.
+:So when I say such-and-such is improper, I'm merely saying : let's replace it with something proper and that's it!
+:When I suggest alternative sentences for a character to say, I mean you to take it, or generate something in return, and then ''merge it in''.
+:We're not supposed to talk forever, let alone to nitpick each other's grammar (my English is far from perfect). We're supposed to build.
+:Did you notice what I did to the [[User_talk:Guido/Wishlist/Part 2|actual scene]]? Your wishlist is imperfect ''but'' it's dynamic. It ''should'' live.
+:I won't mind if you edit everything in-place and delete every trace of "English issues". I ''encourage'' you to do so.
+:Post. Post raw, heck, post ''Italian''.
+:Auto-spellcheck. Update.
+:Auto-check grammar (careful with those, BTW...). Update.
+:Compare with Google or Babelfish translation (just in case). Update.
+:Take in remarks by peers. Merge, update.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:24, 30 October 2006 (CET)
+:Moreover I always have to confront with Microsoft Word automatic grammar check.  But this is another story...
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:45, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:The spellchecker starts explaining things like "musk". In those cases, even the lamest translator Google is a better friend (the best friend you can get is, of course, a dictionary).
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:24, 30 October 2006 (CET)
+:I do know how to be precise (and when I say precise I say self-consistent), but in a creative process I prefer playing with riddles and with your curiosity. :)
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:45, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:That's not something I'd recommend, mainly because of the actual imprecisions (vocabulary etc) it cumulates with.
+:If we were all telepaths (or Italians), I believe we'd enjoy ourselves tremendously.
+:Because then your very understatements and ambiguities would be absolutely precise.
+:Right now, how should I say, the overall effect is not exactly that of a riddle session...
+:And you're not exactly playing with my curiosity when you give me "musk" or "crusty" and then have me wonder about "wheeze"...
+:You are free to leave certaing things out of the scope, but whatever you ''choose'' to focus on, precision should be ''there''.
+:"siding a collapsed highway", "drawing water with an old tank" ... Can you hear my head exploding? Please do something about that.
+:''Be on the lookout'' for false friends, for whatever can generate (unwanted) confusion rather than (wanted) ambiguity.
+:Again, I'd strongly encourage you to say ''more'' rather than ''less''. As I said, "whenever it's at all possible". Whenever it doesn't hurt your sense of understatement.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:24, 30 October 2006 (CET)
 ----
 ----
 ==Ragged Konoko==
+[[Image:Guido - Ragged Konoko.jpg|right|thumb|Ragged Konoko]]
 :good.  short, sweet, to the point.
 :I have a hard time imagining konoko ragged -- after all, she's the toughest and quickest to bounce back, and she has a lot of pride -- but that's my only crit.
 :once again, a well done scene.
-::[[User;AF|AF]]
+::;AF
-:First, a tentative proofreading (translation, almost :P) (just merge with your entry if accurate, and delete this) :
+:Picture yourself spending a few weeks in a weather-battered wasteland, with no spare clothes, hardly any drinkable water, and nothing but rock-hard soil to sleep on.
-::Picture yourself spending a few weeks in a weather-battered wasteland, with no spare clothes, hardly any drinkable water, and nothing but rock-hard soil to sleep on.
+:Take someone who's been pedaling uphill, or climbing up a cliff... a whole day long, and under the pouring rain... and then try imagine what they'd look like after several days/weeks/months of such activity.
-::Take someone who's been pedaling uphill, or climbing up a cliff... a whole day long, and under the pouring rain... and then try imagine what they'd look like after several days/weeks/months of such activity.
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] & [[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
-::original post by [[User:Guido|Guido]]
-::proofreading and re-translation by:[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST) ^^
@@ Line 53: / Line 92: @@
 :If you choose to picture Konoko as struggling with the environment rather than adapting to it, then you are missing Oni's "symbiosis" completely, and that's a shame.
 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+[[Image:Guido - Who said I enjoy acid showers.jpg|right]]
+:Well let's take a look at the splashscreen in the end of {{C12}}.
+:Konoko doesn't give me the idea she is enjoying the acid bath.
+:Do you think she is keen on repeating such an experience?
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:43, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:Hm, yeah, I still have to upload all the other splashscreens and complete the [[Chapters]]... thanks for reminding me.
+:I ''never'' said "enjoy", up there or at all. I said "take". Acid or not, a cold shower is usually not a pleasant experience.
+:Also :
+:#There's an obvious difference between complete immersion in a biomatter disposal vat, and an improvised shower under an acid rain.
+:#The rain's acidity is not even a given : class 3/4 toxins are the main issue of Oni's [[BioCrisis]], and I focused on toxic rain in my argument.
+:#The other characters in the scene don't seem to care about the rain acidity/toxicity at all
+:#*(and I stressed that fact repeatedly, see above and below, section "Acid Rain")
+:#*(if humans can work/shout/whatever under that rain, Konoko can take a f##king shower)
+:#*(she doesn't have to enjoy it, but she ''will'' do it for the sake of staying clean)
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 15:07, 30 October 2006 (CET)
+:There is a subtle difference between possessing an enhanced self-healing power, and being immune to suffering and pain.
+:I think Konoko has become a die-hard, but the worst side effect of her condition is that she can endure pain more than anyone else.
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:43, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:That's another story. When I say "there are certain advantages to being a [[Daodan]]", aren't they always coupled to drawbacks? Sure are.
+:Perhaps the most obvious drawbacks are the loss of identity and/or free will; the rejection by mankind; the power to hurt and to kill.
+:As for the "power to suffer"... [[Quotes/Speech#Torture|Muro has it all figured out]], as far as I'm concerned :
+::Curious. Why bother programming you to feel pain so intensely?
+::Of course pain is a necessary response to certain stimuli, but they could have dulled the sensation
+::or given you a threshold that would limit the extent and depth of your agony. I'm glad they didn't.
+:Suppressing pain altogether is virtual suicide. ''Dulling it is an improvement''. By all means the [[Daodan]] would ''ease Konoko's pain''. IMO.
+:That being said, I'd love it if we used this opportunity to develop on the Lost Chapter 12.5, following Konoko between {{C12}} and {{C13}}.
+:How much can Konoko suffer? How much does she ''need'' to suffer? (story-wise and ''author''-wise) That's something we ought to set straight.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 15:07, 30 October 2006 (CET)
+Follow-up discussion moved on [[Talk:Pain]].
-Well let's take a look at the splashscreen in the end of Sins of the Father. Konoko doesn't give me the idea she is enjoying the acid bath. Do you think she is keen on repeating such an experience? There is a subtle difference between possessing an enhanced self-healing power, and being immune to suffering and pain. I think Konoko has become a die hard, but the worst side effect of her condition is that she can endure pain more than anyone else.
-::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:43, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
 ----
+[[Image:Guido - When you need an umbrella.jpg|right]]
 ;Ragged Konoko (redux)
 :Bottom line for me as for the explanatory sentences :
@@ Line 97: / Line 165: @@
 :"Mrs." means she's married. "Ms." means we don't know. Up to you.
 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+Mrs.
+::[[User:Guido|guido]] 22:34, 29 November 2006 (CEST)
 ----
 :Either an overlooked "bug" or an understressed "feature" : Ms. Hishikawa instructing Kazuo to take Konoko to the ambulance, and finally accompanying them all the way.
@@ Line 107: / Line 178: @@
 :After a good look at Konoko, Kazuo reconsiders his initial impressions, maybe Ms. Hishikawa realizes something as well?
 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
-:BTW, whatever "''crusty'' woman" is supposed to mean... The meaning you put into it is ''almost'' clear, but isn't [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusty#Stereotype "crusty"] completely improper?
+:BTW, whatever "''crusty'' woman" is supposed to mean... The meaning you put into it is ''almost'' clear, but isn't [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crusty&direction=prev&oldid=124117982#Stereotype "crusty"] completely improper?
+as far as I know "crusty" can be referred ''sensu latu'' to a person , like a military officer.
+::[[User:Guido|guido]] 22:34, 29 November 2006 (CEST)
 :Also, the hearing range of Ms. Hishikawa is minimal because of the downpour
@@ Line 261: / Line 335: @@
 :It would help if she's indeed f##ked-up by her exile, but then again I have trouble imagining her f##ked-up, too.
 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:I am convinced that the exile is a choice or a status mirroring Konoko's pride rather than a surrender. [...]
+::[[User:Guido|guido]] 22:24, 29 November 2006 (CEST)
+;Follow-up discussion moved on [[Talk:Pride]]...
+[[Category:Oni 2]]